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Post by Lucid on Feb 26, 2009 21:39:48 GMT -5
I was doing some tweaking and noticed on WinALDL that I was showing extremely rich at around 2000 rpm up at something like 108 BLM's. I adjusted the injector constant back to 19 lbs and noticed a substantial decrease in performance.
I need to go back and adjust the MAF tables to richen them back up in SOME areas.
I think you are under injecting the fuel on your TPI and it would really benefit you to get some 22 lbs or maybe 24 lbs or an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
What I suggest is to run WinALDL and do a datalog on your car and at the end of the run go to each tab like the BLM tab, the Knock tab and INT tab and save those tables. Find out where your car is running too rich or too lean.
At the injector constant you are running right now I think you will find you are leaning out quite a bit.
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Post by z28camaroracer on Feb 26, 2009 22:44:41 GMT -5
I will give it a look this weekend. I may also try returning the o2 threshold to specs and start twiking the maf tables to see how it runs.
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Post by Lucid on Feb 26, 2009 23:43:03 GMT -5
02 threshold: the difference might be that the cam overlap is different than his.
The way he picked those values was this way:
"I determined the values for the table by looking at what the oxygen sensor was reading as soon as the engine entered closed loop, before the INT/BLM entries had a chance to change. I was seeing about 0.230-0.250 V at 8.xx g/sec, so I set the two lowest table entries to 0.260 V. Only do this if you're SURE you're not running too lean with the fuel settings you've specified earlier."
On a datalog and make a spread sheet. Look for the closed loop flag in one of the columns and look at the the corresponding 02 voltage just like he did.
The MAF tables are going to be like this:
-MAF table 1 is your idle and minimal throttle table -MAF table 2 & 3 are your part throttle cruising as well as slight tip in -MAF table 4 is 1/2 to 3/4 throttle opening -MAF 5 & 6 are PE and full throttle
-watch the scanner to see what grams a sec. you are flowing, check your BLM's at that flow rate, find the table that flows that gram a sec. then adjust the scaler accordingly.
Let me know the results, I would be very interested to hear what happens when you adjust the MAF tables on that cammed car.
-the first 3 to 4 entries on MAF table 1 will have to be raised or lowered(most likely lowered) on a cammed car.
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Post by Lucid on Mar 3, 2009 0:45:11 GMT -5
I was watching that video of the autocross and noticed how nicely the engine revved and realized that the stock tune probably was not off by that much in the tables. I remember sitting in the car with a scanner and watching the BLM's way before I started to do chip burning.
On my 86 I had already put the injector constant back to stock and noticed how rich I was still running all over. I got an 86 $32 BIN and copied all the MAF tables, all 6 of them and burned another chip.
The first time I got on it the car revved up and I started to lose control of the rear end. I dont think its ever woken up like that before. It floated the valves pretty easily, so now I know my spark table is too aggressive.
My BLM's at idle and across the board look much better.
Tuning with the MAF tables seems to make the engine more happy all the way around.
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Post by z28camaroracer on Mar 9, 2009 0:32:19 GMT -5
Can you post the values that you are running I adjusted mine but I think that I need to tap the maf signal wire to see the maf voltage and then adjust the maf tables.
Table 1 22.91 19.32 15.72 12.85 10.42 8.36 6.29 4.58 8.36
Table 2 47.81 44.81 41.25 37.88 34.88 31.88 28.88 25.50 21.19
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Post by Lucid on Mar 9, 2009 3:47:18 GMT -5
On my 86 I set the Spark Tables back to stock and also I set the IAC motor steps back to stock.
I am still fighting the idle problem, I am going to swap the MAF from the other camaro and rule out that.
The weird thing is, if I cut the engine off and restart it, it normally idles fine.
As for tuning the MAF tables, have you tried using Tunerpro RT (real time) to do a datalog? I think the MAF voltages might be in there.
Make sure you do the EGR table like I posted up and also you might want to do the:
Warm IAC Park Steps vs Coolant Temp 45 45 45 45 60 80 95 110 110
MAF Tables - AUM (BCC Code) $32 code (86 TPI 305)
Table 1 22.41 17.82 14.04 10.89 8.37 6.21 4.59 3.24 9.99
Table 2 46.81 43.05 39.67 36.10 32.71 29.70 26.70 24.06 21.43
If you copy and paste these tables, the ending value on the last table has to be very close to the beginning value of the following table so there are no bogs/hiccups.
Also, when tweaking the tables, less airflow = less fuel, which leans them out. If you notice the 305 maf tables are much lower which means they need less gas.
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Post by z28camaroracer on Mar 9, 2009 21:43:33 GMT -5
I will have to take a look at datalogging with the tuner pro software.
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Post by Lucid on Mar 15, 2009 22:58:54 GMT -5
I have been having a long crank problem after I get back from lunch and let the car sit for a couple hours at night at work.
I get in the car and cranking cranking cranking for about 10 seconds and it wont even sputter.
Eventually after about 20 seconds of cranking it will sputter and die. I can hear the relay priming the injectors, it just doesnt seem to be injecting the fuel though so I made a change:
Crank Fuel PW Multiplier vs Reference Pulse 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00
I noticed on the stock 86 BIN all the values were 1.00 Multiplier, so it seems that they need a lot of fuel to startup on the non-roller iron headed blocks.
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Post by Lucid on Apr 7, 2009 3:36:36 GMT -5
Thomas I am going to email you an updated BIN that you sent me.
I modified: EGR Tables Power Enrichment vs RPM Crank PW Multiplier vs Ref Pulse Spark Tables (maxed them out at 35.86) Single/Double Fire constant (19lb)
Compare it to the BIN you are using now, and try it it out if you like. The power enrichment is what I am currently running on my IROC and it will spin up to 4500rpm spin the tires and continue then to rev to 6000-6250 rpm very happily.
I think you will find with more fuel you can run more spark, so adjust the power enrichment and notice the change in performance.
I reset all my MAF tables to stock the stock LB9 tables and it helped cure that low end bog I was having. I didnt touch your MAF tables on your BIN.
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Post by z28camaroracer on Apr 7, 2009 21:46:27 GMT -5
I will give it a try I ended up going back one chip after getting the vss counting correctly. I need to get a better way of monitoring the air fuel ratio and lean this thing out last tank averaged around 10 mpg. I an also considering raiseing the base timming and setting it to 13-15 degrees and setting it with tha aldl cable connected because it bumps the idle up with the aldl connected. I think even though I have the spark adder off it is adding some. And I have a feeling tha tthis is also throwing off my datalogs. I am planning to raise the base timming because when the aldl is connected it has a more stable idle and seems to run better. there is a dyno day coming up and I am planning to try it again to see what it puts down. Maybe they will have the wideband hooked up this time.
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Post by z28camaroracer on Apr 8, 2009 22:00:53 GMT -5
Well I tinkered with the car today and the aldl isn't adding timming so I need to find out why the rpm jumps to 1000 rpm with it connected. I went ahead and set the base timing to 15* and adjusted the bin to match the new base. I will see how it runs in the morning. Dyno day is this saturday at leathal performance so I will see what she does this time.
I have a set of 24# or 26# injectors that I got from Corey. I need to get a set of intake gaskets and put them in.
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Post by Lucid on Apr 8, 2009 23:00:44 GMT -5
The ALDL cable does the same with my cars as well. I dont know why this happens, have you tried using tunerpro?
My cars run happily at 13 degrees BTDC with the EST wire disconnected and set at that in the BIN.
You could also add timing in the main spark table at low RPM's to stabilize the idle and also mess with the Warm IAC steps and idle speed tables. Make sure that your spark table is smooth, the smoother you make it the better the car will run.
We are using an ARAP bin and most of the settings are for that particular aluminum headed 350. Thats why I went back to the stock LB9 MAF tables which are leaner. You are going to want to copy the MAF tables from an iron headed 350 BIN.
If I had the money I would dyno the red iroc because with the extra power enrichment she is chirping the tires in second at 6000 rpm so it would be interesting to see what kind of power curves shes running.
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Post by Lucid on Apr 15, 2009 22:06:05 GMT -5
I did noticed a big decrease in performance when I went from 18 lb to 19 lb in the BIN on the IROC. I have since added even more enrichment to power enrichment vs rpm.
Supposedly, going 1lb leaner is about 5% leaner so I went and added about 3.5 % enrichment to test that theory and much of that WOT throttle response is back.
This is in addition to the other power enrichment I just sent to you in that bin, so I will send you an updated BIN. You may even need more than that, probably the full 5%.
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Post by z28camaroracer on Apr 15, 2009 22:12:10 GMT -5
Ok, it will be a while before I get to try it. The 89 is under the knife again for a face lift.
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Post by Lucid on Apr 16, 2009 0:38:59 GMT -5
Sweet, cant wait to see it
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